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And I have actually been happy to fulfill them and proud to welcome them. Chairman Leahy. Additionally, as my last question, in several of the testimony this morning there has actually been a tip that, of training course, just with all the numerous billions, trillions of bucks prepared to spend, you ought to just go elsewhere.


Stenger. I would certainly tell you that in this climate the ability to elevate capital for things we are doing would certainly have-- it is impossible to do so in a manner that would allow us as efficiently and as promptly produce things we have actually done. You can obtain money if you have actually obtained 50 percent down.


I can have obtained half of that if I had the $12 million in cash to install. Everyone recognizes that, yes, financial institutions have money to funding as long as you have obtained fifty percent of it in your pocket before you request for the other half. That is not just how service works these days.

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You are speaking from a real-world experience, not from a think container experience. I will leave that just as an unjustified comment from the Chairman. Senator Grassley. Legislator Grassley. Thanks. I intend to be accountable in this concern of undocumented workers. I desire to confess that we only have anecdotal info, yet I would love to ask you to what degree you need to go or do go to ensure that the centers see to it that the financial investments do not create tasks for individuals below unlawfully.


Mr. Stenger. We have hired-- as I said, at the Peak we had 550 construction workers on our project.


They are made up of 10, 15, 20, 30 workers. They are from our regional counties. They are Vermonters. They are benefiting straight from the investment. So we are a hands-on center. I know the workers, I know their families, and we have had the ability to utilize-- through these last 3 years of horrible financial turmoil, we have been able to use virtually every building and construction worker in our county and the bordering areas.

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homeowners. They reside in the area. Their households exist. They are invested in the areas, and they are all united state employees. Senator Grassley. You do not need to make use of e-verify, yet I would love to recognize whether you do. Mr. Stenger. We do. Senator Grassley. You do.


Thanks. Mr. North, along the same lines of the concern I asked him, has your study shown instances various other-- and I just gave one instance, so I wish to admit that and be accountable concerning it-- of centers employing undocumented people? Mr. North. That type of information is really hard to acquire from USCIS, and I have to say that what we do understand around most of the interior aspects of that firm as far as this program is concerned associates with instances in which the team has stated no to an application of some kind and after that the local facility or the specific entrepreneur has gone to the Administrative Appeals Office-- which becomes part of the company-- and there we obtain records, we obtain a hearing officer telling us what is going on in that particular case.




This is a bad application." So there is a quantity of bad applications out there, yet just when that process obtains before an administrative legislation court do we see much in the way of information. Currently, there was one EB5 Regional Center Program instance that you pointed out, and let me simply specify on that a little bit.

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Mr - EB5 Regional Center Program. North. The dairy products ranch had actually claimed 17 employees, and they obtained right into it, and the court located that 16 of them were illegals.


Okay. I am mosting likely to ask separate questions of each of the three of you, but it deals with this set concern. As I claimed in my opening declaration, I am worried regarding the prospective technicality that enables financiers to withdraw their investment in regional facilities after obtaining their permit.


Divine, are you familiar with any instances in which an investor withdrew the investment and walked away promptly after obtaining an environment-friendly card? And if you are, or if you assume it is a trouble, do you believe that it is a loophole that should be closed? Mr. Divine. I would state that most of the investors, if you inquired what are their objectives, they would say, "I wish to obtain a permit, and I wish to keep it.


If I put my money in a resort development-- Legislator Grassley. Can I assume then that you are saying that there does not need to be any kind of changes made in that regard? Mr. Divine. I do not believe so. Legislator Grassley. Okay. Allow me ask Mr. Stenger, is it common for an investor in your experience to withdraw his or her investment quickly after getting a permit? Mr.

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Legislator, no. Our programs need that the financier be invested for a minimum of 5 years and be paid back only if business remains in a placement to do so at the end of that time. So we have the advantage of the resources to produce the service, get it running, make it successful, ensure that the work will certainly be developed and preserved, and afterwards only if the company succeeds will there be a leave approach for the financier.